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Saw Blades

For discussion of processes related to using Bullseye glass, including kilnforming and kilncasting, torchwork, blowing and stained glass.

Re: Saw Blades

Postby Twin Vision Glass » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:55 am

Perhaps it is this OLD 10 year old MAC. :? Thanks sooooo much.
Leslie
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Re: Saw Blades

Postby Muzzio » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:11 am

I'm a bit late on this, but I have some input that I think might be useful.

I have tested about 6 different 10" continuous rim diamond blades (price range between $10 to over $300). There are a lot of variables to cutting speed, including the rotations per minute of the saw, the lubricant used, the load (how hard you push) and the saw blade. My saw has a fixed rotation speed and the lubricant is water, so the main variables I can control are the blade and the load. Note that there is an optimal load for each situation, and exceeding that will create more heat than the coolant is able to dissipate, causing your blade to quickly deteriorate. I suspect this had something to do with your blade wearing out in only 16 hours. A standard blade can last hundreds of hours under normal cutting conditions.

So, what options are there for speeding up the cut? I have found that the mesh size of the diamonds makes a very significant difference. Larger mesh generally cuts faster, but with the trade-off of having a rougher finish and higher likelihood of chipping. Blades specially made for cutting glass are usually made with finer mesh diamonds to reduce chipping. The good news is that you can get large mesh ceramic tile cutting blades for a fraction of the price of glass blades, so it may be well worth your time and money to test one out. If you are fusing the glass again after cutting, then the rough finish and a modest amount of chipping at the edges might not make any difference for you, though I do recommend spraying or scrubbing the the cut surface before it has a chance to dry - a rougher surface carries more glass scum from cutting.

If you or anyone wants to give one of these blades a try, I have tried the MK Diamond MK-99 continuous rim wet blade:
http://www.csnstores.com/asp/superbrows ... 76_2879216

Not the best blade for delicate work but this blade cuts faster than any other I've tried, and is also cheaper.
When trying a cheaper blade, I suggest trying it first on a test piece that is representative of what you are going to cut. Check that there is not too much vibration, which could mean that your blade is out of flat or out of round (assuming that your saw harbor and flange are not) - in which case you'll probably want to exchange the blade. I've never had this experience but someone on amazon.com seems to have gotten a bad one of the blades I mentioned above. Make sure you are comfortable with the amount of chippage before you use it on your project. Chippage usually occurs most at the end of the cut, where the thinnest remaining part has no support and breaks off. There are a lot of other factors involved, besides the blade, in minimizing chipping. If anyone wants my input on that feel free to ask.

A couple thoughts about coolant. If you are cutting very thick glass, the cutting surface area where the blade and glass touch is going to be very large. This creates more heat as the blade spends more time rubbing against the glass and less time cooling off. Additionally, the coolant has a harder time getting all the way into and covering the entire cutting surface. This means less lubrication, more friction, and more heat. Under these circumstances, it's important to do everything you can to make sure you're getting adequate coolant flow into the cut and covering the entire cutting surface. Good coolant flow will allow you to use a bit more load and thus could speed up cutting.

Please let me know if anyone finds this information useful. I would be very interested to hear the experiences of others.
Muzzio
 

Re: Saw Blades

Postby Twin Vision Glass » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:54 am

WOW! that is an amazing site for blades of every size and shape and continuous or segmented and well, I guess it could take years to test all these. I wish I could figure out if the MK-Diamond- 166967-MKD 1213 is a 10 " inch blade. And if so have you tried this one (I know it is silly to think out of all those blades you have tried this one, BUT I really like the segmented for thick cutting. )
Thankyou so much for posting this Muzzio. I also would love to travel to Bullseye and take a coldworking course and try their blades they are suggesting. I must upgrade my saw to a 12 " or 14 " inch as well so that I can really do some thick pieces. How thick are you cutting Muzzio, and what blade do you use for( 3 inch or 4 inch) thickness by 20 inch long or more. I find the continuous rim is excellent for 1 inch thick or less for what I am doing, but the Bullseye crew have been using the same blades for years they are suggesting and many different people using them as well for classes, and they also have tested many. I look forward to trying their equipment very much and hope to try the ones you suggest tooo! Here are a few I like the look of.
Leslie
Here is the one I really want to know about!
http://www.csnstores.com/Norton-NXSLC-OLP1267.html


http://www.csnstores.com/asp/superbrows ... utFormat=1
http://www.csnstores.com/asp/superbrows ... utFormat=1
http://www.csnstores.com/asp/superbrows ... utFormat=1

http://www.csnstores.com/MK-Diamond-166967-MKD1213.html
Leslie Rowe-Israelson
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Re: Saw Blades

Postby Muzzio » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:59 pm

Hi Leslie,

About the links you posted, the middle three all take me to the same list of results page.
Of the other two, I have not tried either of them. The MK-Diamond- 166967-MKD 1213 is a 10 " inch blade, but it has a 1" harbor.

The Norton Diamond Blade Slicer - NXSLC says "Smoothest cut with the best finish."

The main point I was trying to make with my post above is that smoother cut and better finish generally equals slower cutting because the diamonds are much smaller. Unless there is a big difference in diamond concentration or other variables between the finer mesh blade and the coarser mesh blade you are comparing it to, the coarser mesh blade will be faster but produce a rougher finish. Think about every grinding application you know: sandpaper, knife sharpeners, nail files, etc... You start with the coarser mesh first because it removes material faster, then you use the finer mesh to smooth the surface.

I have cut 3" thick glass with the cheap blade I mentioned. This is going to be subjective, because I didn't record the time, but on comparing, I found that the cheap blade took less than half the time to cut compared with a specialty glass cutting blade. If you value your time at 10 Dollars per hour, and you try this blade and it does happen to work, you will have made back your money including shipping in less than 3 hours of time saving. That being said, you don't have to get a cheap blade to get coarse diamond (though most manufacturers price better finish blades at the higher end), but you'll have to find a dealer that is willing to do the homework to give you the mesh size.

In response to Bullseye and what they have been using for years:
This is conjecture, but I think for a lot of users, good finish and no chipping might be more important because they don't want to damage the perfect edges and/or they can save hours of refinishing. I haven't heard of people regularly changing blades between jobs, so the need to have a clean cut will trump the desire to cut faster. But, in the very specific situation of cutting components of glass that will be re-fired to fusing temperature, the finish quality of the cut may be irrelevant (still depending on application). Personally, I usually use blades that provide a better finish. I'm not cutting extra thick glass for hours and hours, and I think Bullseye said that they aren't either. I'm trying to help you find a solution for your special process, which by the way I think is spectacular. :)

Anyhow.. that's my spin.

Please keep us posted about your progress.
Muzzio
 

Re: Saw Blades

Postby Twin Vision Glass » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:19 pm

AND I THANKYOU sooo much. :D I guess for my personal style, I like a blade that does not have to have a refined finish as I usually will be re-casting.(unless working on my jewellery line) :geek: So for me , if the blade saws 3 or 4 times faster, and it takes 5 hours of sawing to saw up one of the many bars, then speed is on my side. (and my aching arms tooo. ) I really need to up-grade to a larger saw. Like the tech team mentions, choose your equipment for the end result, and if only I had a cold working studio , I would have 2 saws, one that is 14 inch chomping blade and one with a 10 inch fine finish blade. (Give me TEETH! ;) and then slow down at the end of the cut; for colour and pattern bars!). My arms thank the saw blade everytime. What a whimp I am but at 56 , I guess my arms are not quite as strong as they used to be :oops:
Leslie
Leslie Rowe-Israelson
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Re: Saw Blades

Postby Twin Vision Glass » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:38 pm

1010
I think perhaps we are very lucky when re-casting and fusing as capping the slices with clear 1401 is such a wonderful fix to not having perfect refined cuts. I know when you are going to Hexal or UV the smoother the saw cut the better off you are, so it is that old saying "A STITCH IN TIME SAVES NINE! " and usually this is no different in the glass design department, but 1401 is a saving grace for sure.(in more ways than one for this older gal.)
Image
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Leslie Rowe-Israelson
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Re: Saw Blades

Postby Twin Vision Glass » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:48 pm

Leslie_Rowe-Israelson_image#2.jpg
Leslie_Rowe-Israelson_image#2.jpg (50.14 KiB) Viewed 3411 times


You can see how capping is our best friend. Les
Leslie Rowe-Israelson
Give out FREE hugs!
Twin Vision Glass
 
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:42 pm
Location: Invermere , B.C. Canada

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