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Pate de verre

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Pate de verre

Postby Keith » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:30 pm

Hello, I have been watching the multiple videos on making bowls and such using the pate de verre method and I have a few questions. Here they go
When making the plaster molds to make wax duplicates you hydrate the mold by submerging in water. When you make the 2 layer refractory mold can you submerge it to help remove the wax mold? They also state that you do not want the mold to dry out when you are packing the mold with glass. Can you make the 2 part mold in advance and submerge to hydrate prior to packing the mold?
Also they use a bed of sand to level the mold. Can a ring mold up on stilts be used like in the 3 Deep molds instead of the sand?
I do not have any gum arabic to mix with the frit. Can "Liquid Stringer" media be used? Any other alternatives to the gum arabic?

Thanks

Keith
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Re: Pate de verre

Postby marykaynitchie » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:43 pm

Hi Keith,

We asked Bonnie to consider your questions. Her replies:

Q: When you make the 2 layer refractory mold can you submerge it to help remove the wax mold?
A: As shown, we typically peel the wax out of the 2 layer mold, but I can’t think of why it wouldn’t work with water & it’s worth trying. For some forms, this may be gentler on the mold, if it works well. Part of what makes the water effective from the plaster mold is the temperature change in the wax once the liquid wax has been poured off. It’s an efficient way to cool the model, release it cleanly & work in multiples.

Q: Can you make the 2 part mold in advance and submerge to hydrate prior to packing the mold?
A: Yes. We do this regularly. Submerge the dry mold in water until bubbles stop coming up from the mold. Then wrap the exterior of the mold in wet paper towels & plastic wrap to help keep the moisture in while packing the mold with glass. If working on a smaller piece that can be packed within an hour or so, wrapping the mold may not be necessary.

Q: Also they use a bed of sand to level the mold. Can a ring mold up on stilts be used like in the 3 Deep molds instead of the sand?
A: Sure. I’ve done this before with a conical mold. Fiber paper (new or burned out) can also work here, especially if the mold has a flat spot. How the mold is supported is another variable to keep track of as it may affect how the piece fires.

Q: Can "Liquid Stringer" media be used? Any other alternatives to the gum arabic?
A: I don’t have any direct experience using Liquid Stringer as a binder, but it would be worth trying. You may need a different amount than shown in the videos to get a mix that works well, which is part of the experimentation of it all. While packing, overall moisture and tamping are important as well as having some sort of a “glue”. Other binders I’ve heard mentioned with some success (though again, without direct experience) include CMC (Carboxymethyl cellulose) & watered down wallpaper paste. Glastac can also work, though I think might be better with some forms than others – it’s not as sticky, but might do the trick with the right project. The frit mix should come off of the spoon pretty easily & if it’s too sticky, add water.


We hope this helps you decide on your next steps!

Mary Kay
Mary Kay Nitchie
Bullseye Glass Co.

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Re: Pate de verre

Postby Keith » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Thanks so much for responding. I already did all of the things I was asking about. Putting the mold in the water to release the wax worked quite well. I also made the molds in advance and re-hydrated them that worked well also. Based a link from Corning glass I used Elmers glue for the binder. I did the same ratio of 7:1:1 glass:glue:water. Seemed to worked well.
I just put another bowl in the kiln a few minutes ago and I have a few questions. Surprise.
The first bowl I tried I did all of the above and followed the instructions and firing schedule from the video lesson Pate de Verre Bowl. I wanted a glossy surface so I fired without the talc. I assume because of this the bowl pooled and dropped some of the sides. See pic. Trying not to make such a mess I figured I would go with a matte finish and use the talc.This time the bowl was pretty much the right form but it is a disgusting grey on the inside. It looks almost like the talc color after firing? See pic. Any idea what caused the discoloration? I now have a red bowl in the kiln with talc but I really tried to pack the glass tight and I very loossly packed the talc.

A question about the mold making . I made a mold using a plastic candy mold like in the Day of the Dead video using the alginate. Could one make a plaster mold instead of alginate and then make another plaster mold from that plaster mold?
Keith
 
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Re: Pate de verre

Postby Keith » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:46 pm

It looks like my pics are not posting.
Keith
 
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Re: Pate de verre

Postby Keith » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:20 pm

I think I figured out how to get the pics to post. The red bowl came out of the kiln with the same grey /black discoloration. You can see in the last photo the blue bowl that did not have talc and fell down did not have the discoloration. Can other things be used instead of talc?
Attachments
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Red Bowl with Talc
image1.JPG (93.57 KiB) Viewed 5790 times
image1 3.JPG
Blue bowl with Talc
image1 3.JPG (104.02 KiB) Viewed 5790 times
image1 2.JPG
Glue
image1 2.JPG (86.93 KiB) Viewed 5790 times
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Re: Pate de verre

Postby Keith » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:21 pm

Hope this one goes
Attachments
image1 4.JPG
All 3
image1 4.JPG (102.42 KiB) Viewed 5789 times
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